Speeches & Floor Statements
Colloquy Remarks of U.S. Senator Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn.) and Republican Colleagues -- McCain Amendment and Health Care Reform
Posted on December 3, 2009
The answer to the question, will this impact seniors care, is yes. We have heard these cuts aren't going to impact anybody, or the only people they are going to impact are the insurance companies. Well, I am all for impacting the insurance companies, but I don't want to impact patients negatively. So we have cuts to Medicare, including hospitals, of $134.7 billion; hospices, $7.7 billion; nursing homes, $14.6 billion; Medicare Advantage, $120 billion; home health agencies, $42.1 billion; and then you say you are not going to do anything to impact the care of seniors. My colleague from Iowa, whom I love, disputed my statement about the fact that the life expectancy is going to go down under this bill. He has never practiced medicine a day in his life. I know what goes on inside hospitals. When you cut $130 billion out of the hospitals, the time you are going to wait for me, the time you wait after you push your call button is going to get extended and the complications from that are going to result in decreased quality of care and shortened life expectancies. There is no question about it. So we can play the game, but the real thing Americans ought to know is almost $500 billion of spending on Medicare patients today is going to go by the wayside to be spent on a new entitlement, on a brandnew entitlement. The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. BROWN). The Senator from Idaho is recognized. Mr. CRAPO. If the Senator from Oklahoma will respond to a question. You are a physician, and you have very well pointed out how the cuts to Medicare Advantage will reduce benefits to senior citizens. The impacts on the hospitals and home health care and the skilled nursing facilities and so forth will be reduced services. I am aware of a June 2008 report from the Medicare Payment Advisory Commission, MedPAC, which said 29 percent of Medicare beneficiaries they surveyed who were looking for a primary care physician had trouble finding one who would treat them. A similar survey in Texas showed that in that State, only 58 percent of the State's doctors would be willing to take a new Medicare patient, and only 38 percent of the primary care doctors accepted new patients. So my question is, in addition to the reduction of benefits, in addition to the reduction of access to hospitals and skilled nursing facilities and so forth, won't these cuts and the impact on Medicare also represent a lack of ability by Medicare recipients to literally find physician care? Mr. COBURN. There is no question, to answer my colleague from Idaho, that if it doesn't eliminate the ability, it will deny by delaying the ability. Care delayed is care denied. All you have to do is read all of the tragedies that have gone on in this country for people who have delayed care which has resulted in large complications for that individual. Mr. ENZI. Mr. President, I wish to raise a point as the accountant around here. You have mentioned some ways to cut Medicare to pay for this. Actually there are only two ways you can pay for a government program. You have to do it through cuts or through taxes. I don't think there is anybody in America who believes you can do $1 trillion worth of new programs and have them all paid for, unless you steal somewhere. That is what we are doing from Medicare. We say that is not going to affect Medicare. If you eliminate the DSH payments which are part of this, it is going to put some Wyoming hospitals out of business. I can assure you that if those seniors can't go to a hospital in their town, they are going to consider that a benefit cut. They are going to be upset, and they ought to be. The same with nursing homes. If you cut back on nursing homes, the people who have to move to another town for a nursing home -- because all of our towns don't have more than one nursing home -- puts quite a burden not only on the patient who isn't going to get to see their family as much, but also on the family who has to travel a long way to see the patient. So I don't think we ought to be paying for the new programs by doing this when Medicare needs an extended life. I am always fascinated when they explain that this will extend the life of Medicare because, yes, if you cut payments to everybody, that maybe saves money and extends the life of it, if we did that. Is there anybody who thinks we are going to cut the doctors over the next 10 years by $250 billion? No, we are not going to do that. We never have. Mr. COBURN. Would the Senator yield for a moment? Mr. ENZI. Yes. Mr. COBURN. My one criticism of my colleagues in writing this bill is I think there is money we can save in Medicare. It is called waste, fraud, and abuse. A Harvard professor who studies this says there is at least $125 billion a year in fraud. We have had several studies that say anywhere from $100 billion to $175 billion a year. There is nothing in this bill to eliminate fraud. What we are doing is we are taking care from seniors instead of taking the money from the fraudulent actors in the health care system. Mr. ALEXANDER. Mr. President, if I may say to the Senator from Arizona, I greatly appreciate his making this amendment, because there is so much said here on the Senate floor that must be hard for many people to follow. But one thing I believe everybody agrees on is there are going to be $465 billion in cuts to Medicare over the next 10 years, period. Everybody agrees with that. The President of the United States has said we are going to pay for this new health care bill with one-half from Medicare cuts and one-half from taxes. Everyone agrees with that. What Senator McCain's amendment is saying is two things -- and Senator McCain, let me see if I characterize properly your amendment, because it is a very simple amendment, as I read it. It is saying, send it back to the Finance Committee and say, bring the health care bill back without the Medicare cuts, without these cuts to hospitals, cuts to hospices, cuts to nursing homes, cuts to Medicare Advantage, and cuts to home health agencies. Second, if we are going to take money from grandma's Medicare, let's spend it on grandma. Let's take the savings we find in Medicare and absolutely make sure we spend it on Medicare, which the trustees have said is likely to go broke between 2015 and 2017. Did I correctly characterize your amendment? Mr. McCAIN. Absolutely. Mr. ALEXANDER. And does the Senator recall a few years ago when the Republicans suggested saving $10 billion over 5 years in Medicare, the majority leader said that was immoral, and that other Democratic Senators thought it was awful. If $10 billion in savings to try to make Medicare stronger is immoral, what is spending nearly $1/2 trillion on a new program called? Mr. LeMIEUX. I wonder if I could ask a question. The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Florida is recognized. Mr. LeMIEUX. I have a question for my colleague from Tennessee. I am new here. This is all new to me. I thought the goal was to reduce health care costs while trying to provide health care for more Americans. We are taking money out of health care for seniors to create a new entitlement program. We are taking money out of nursing homes, home health care, hospitals, and a program called Medicare Advantage that people in my State I know enjoy very much. How does it make sense that we are taking money out of Medicare to start a new health care program? Mr. ALEXANDER. Well, if I may say -- and then I think maybe others could respond -- if you are going to spend $2.5 trillion a year, you have to get the money from somewhere. What the Democratic health care bill does is get it three places. One is from seniors, one is from taxes, and one is from the grandchildren of seniors; that is, debt. It comes from those three places. What we heard earlier this week was the Congressional Budget Office saying the total effect of that $2.5 trillion is that for most Americans, premiums would continue to go up as they already are, and that for people who go into the individual market they will go up even more -- they will go up even more -- except there will be some subsidies for a little over half of those people, and where is the subsidy money coming from? It is coming from Medicare. So that is the answer to the question. Mr. LeMIEUX. It would seem to me -- and again, I am new to this process -- that 100 Senators would vote for Senator McCain's proposal because everyone in this Chamber believes we should strengthen Medicare. Who could be for taking money out of Medicare if we don't need to? These are two separate issues. Shouldn't every Senator in this Chamber say let's send this back to the Finance Committee so those cuts can be restored and we can start over and take a step-by-step approach? That only seems fair to me. Perhaps my colleague from Oklahoma could comment on that. The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Oklahoma is recognized. Mr. COBURN. I thank the President. We are in trouble in Medicare in this Nation. Everybody knows it. We have made promises. The unfunded liability on Medicare is $79 trillion. For us to take $1/2 trillion, no matter what the Enron accounting says afterward, the fact is we are going to reduce that; we are going to make that worse. We may not make it worse next year or the year after, but we are going to make it worse. It is going to be worse for seniors, but it is also, as the Senator from Tennessee said, going to be extremely worse for the seniors' kids and grandkids. Not only have we done that, we have raised the taxes in Medicare on a certain group of people and we are going to take that money and not put it in Medicare; we are going to take that money, a Medicare tax, and create a new entitlement. So the Senator from Florida is absolutely right. If you vote against the McCain amendment you are saying you want to cut $1/2 trillion out of Medicare and that it will have no effect whatsoever on the care. I remind the Senator from Florida, you have 1 million people on Medicare Advantage in the State of Florida, 1 million people who are going to lose benefits under this bill. One million people in the State of Florida will lose benefits under this bill. Mr. ALEXANDER. Mr. President, I would ask the Senator from Oklahoma, who is a physician himself, if one of the effects of cuts in Medicare is to make it more difficult for people who are on Medicare to see a doctor. It is like giving somebody a bus ticket and not having a bus. I have been reading in the newspapers, for example, in the Washington Post last month, that the Mayo Clinic, which is often held up as an outstanding example of a clinic that keeps costs under control, has announced it no longer will accept Medicaid patients from Nebraska and Montana, and some Mayo clinic facilities in Arizona and in Florida are beginning to say no more Medicare patients. Is this what the Senator from Oklahoma thinks could be happening at other hospitals and centers, even very good ones such as the Mayo Clinic where they allegedly keep costs at a reasonable level? Mr. COBURN. I think that is entirely possible. I don't know that to be factual as of yet. What I do know is we are going to have 44 million baby boomers in the next 12 years jump into Medicare and we are cutting Medicare. We are going to have 44 million baby boomers jump into Medicare. I am one of them. We are going to cut the amount of available funds from Medicare under this bill. Mr. ENZI. Mr. President, I wish to ask the Senator from Idaho what he thinks will happen with these Medicare cuts as they affect jobs and the economy. That is one of the biggest things on people's minds right now, is jobs and the economy. We are concentrating on something here where we are going to maybe make a difference, even though CBO says it won't be much of a difference. Mr. CRAPO. I thank the Senator from Wyoming for that question, because as we have already reviewed, there will be major cuts in benefits to Medicare, to the Medicare Advantage Program. There are going to be major reductions in access to Medicare, in terms of access at hospitals and skilled nursing homes and facilities and home hospice and other care. But one of the other things we haven't focused on is -- it is kind of interesting that today is the big White House jobs summit -- what is going to happen as a result of these Medicare cuts. In addition to the reduction of access and care and benefits to seniors, we are going to lose jobs. I have had in my office here representatives of nursing and home health care facilities from Idaho who have told me that if this bill is adopted, a number of those facilities are simply going to have to go out of business, or they are going to have to dramatically reduce the services they provide, meaning that the nurses and the other caregivers who work there will no longer have jobs. That is part of the way our senior citizens will lose access because there will simply be fewer places, fewer physicians, fewer facilities that will take Medicare patients with this kind of an attitude of the Federal Government toward funding of Medicare. In the end, what do we have? We have a massive expansion of government, $2.5 trillion for a massive new entitlement program, along with which come these incredible government controls over the economy, as well as the creation of a new government insurance company, funded by $1/2 trillion, almost, of Medicare cuts, $1/2 trillion in taxes, and a massive debt, an unfunded mandate pushed on to the States. That is one of the reasons why I think the Senator from Arizona was so wise in bringing this amendment as the first step in focusing on one of the first fixes that needs to be made to this bill. Let's step back. Let's not pay for a brandnew $2.5 trillion entitlement program on the backs of our senior citizens. Mr. ALEXANDER. How much time is left? The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Arizona is controlling the time, and there is 3 minutes 20 seconds remaining. Mr. McCAIN. Mr. President, I mentioned the AARP and their opposition to this amendment. There is an organization called 60 Plus that has millions of supporters and members. They also feel very different from the AARP. Their message is: Soon you [the Senate] will vote on the McCain motion to commit with instructions. The motion would commit it to the Senate Committee on Finance -- Et cetera. I and the 5.5 million supporters of 60 Plus urge you to support this motion. The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act is nothing of the sort. It would cut Medicare by $500 billion. These cuts would harm seniors who have paid into the program and expect it to be there to help them with their health care needs. At 60 Plus, we pride ourselves on advocating for the best interests of seniors. That is a "yes" vote on this motion. Let's pay attention to 60 Plus. Again – Mr. COBURN. I have a question. Does 60 Plus sell supplemental insurance policies to seniors? Mr. McCAIN. I don't believe so. Mr. COBURN. But AARP does. I wonder why people want seniors off Medicare Advantage. Mr. McCAIN. Most people believe this would be a windfall of tens of millions of dollars for AARP if the legislation is passed as presently crafted. Mr. ALEXANDER. How many Medicare Advantage members are there, for example, in Arizona? Is it a small program or a large program? Mr. McCAIN. Our figures are that 330,000 people in my State of Arizona are on Medicare Advantage. I noticed yesterday, when the distinguished chairman of the Finance Committee and the Senator from Connecticut were talking, the way they were disparaging the entire program, saying how it wasn't any good, talking about the cost overruns and saying it was a bad program. They have opposed it from the start. So the message to the 330,000 Americans in Arizona who are Medicare Advantage is that they are out to get you. Mr. CRAPO. According to the Senator from Tennessee, it is my understanding that nationwide it is about one-quarter of all Medicare beneficiaries. About one in four Medicare beneficiaries in America will see their benefits cut. All Medicare beneficiaries will see their access cut. So these problems we are talking about are not just limited in their impact. Mr. McCAIN. I will respond again. There are cost problems with Medicare Advantage, but those cost problems can be fixed. Those cost problems can be brought under control. But the fact is, to do away with a program that allows them a choice in how they receive their care is, of course, again, an effort to have the government make the decisions for people, which flies in the face of everything we stand for and believe in. Mr. ALEXANDER. I may say to the Senator from Arizona, I have heard our friends on the other side say Republicans are scaring seniors about Medicare cuts. Mr. President, it is not Republican Senators who are scaring seniors about Medicare cuts; it is the Democratic health care bill that is scaring seniors, because there are $1/2 trillion of Medicare cuts that will pay for half of this program, and they are outlined on this chart, as the Senators have discussed. The PRESIDING OFFICER. The time of the Senator from Arizona has expired. The senior Senator from Montana has 15 minutes 50 seconds. Mr. BAUCUS. I will yield myself about 10 minutes. The Senator from Tennessee says this is going to hurt seniors. Let's ask the senior organizations what they think about that. Let's also look at this organization called 60 Plus. What does the AARP say in the letter to Senator Reid, dated December 2? It talks about this legislation: The legislation before the Senate properly focuses on provider reimbursement reforms.... I am sorry all my colleagues have fled the Senate. I would like for them to stay and listen to this. I would like to hear their response. But they have just fled the Senate after making sound bites. Mr. ALEXANDER. Mr. President, I am here.